In the directorial debut from Chris Messina, Mary Elizabeth Winstead plays an environmental attorney who finds her workaholic regimen thrown into flux when her husband, George (Messina), asks for a break. For Alex, George has always been the one to take the reins at home. When his unexpected departure dawns as something more permanent, Alex finds herself caught balancing her family’s demands, her aging father, played memorably by Don Johnson, and her ambitious career, which she now struggles to maintain. Soon, Alex is forced to reevaluate her life and discover what she was always too preoccupied to notice.
IndieNYC‘s David Teich was part of an ‘Alex of Venice‘ roundtable discussion with the film’s Director Chris Messina, as well its actors Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Katie Nehra and Derek Luke at the 2014 Tribeca Film Festival where the film debuted. Currently you can check out ‘Alex of Venice‘ as the Closing Night Film at the 57th Annual San Francisco International Film Festival.
Part One: Chris Messina (Director, Actor)
(Note: * Indicates David Teich’s questions)
When did you decide to direct this story in particular?
I acted in a movie called “28 Hotel Rooms,” directed by Matt Ross, who I love. And that was produced by Jamie Patricof and Lynette Howell of Electric City. They knew I wanted to direct, and they were kind enough to bring me this script. When they brought it to me, it was under a different title. It was a collage of all these characters in Venice, [Los Angeles], but at the core of the collage was a family. The family was very interesting to me, and I recognized myself in them, and my family and friends. So we cut the collage and really concentrated on the family. And at some point after months of working on it, I felt like this was something I wanted to do.
Was directing a feature harder than you expected it to be?
Chris Messina: [Before I started on this project], I would do that awful thing of telling all my friends and loved ones what a good director I would be. We’d watch movies and I’d say, “Why did they cut there? Why did they use that actor? The score doesn’t make any sense.” I really knew it all. But then you’re on a set, and it’s like a bullet train that takes off, and you can’t stop it. And you go, “Oh shit, now I’ve gotta do this. I told everyone I’d be so good. And I feel like I’m so bad." I didn’t realize how much of an undertaking directing was. I was stupidly naive about. I was shooting a television show…while I was editing. I had two full time jobs. I would never do that again. I also learned about all the different departments and how hard they work. A lot of times as an actor I really took that for granted. It’s nice to go back and act now, and really have the utmost respect for the sound department, and the camera department, and the set decorator, and the producers who get you spaces and locations.
*What were your best tendencies as a director?
But the best thing I did as a director was stay out of everybody’s way. They were such a great bunch of actors that you didn’t really have to say much. In fact, if you said too much, you were ruining things. I wanted to [direct] the film in ways that I enjoy [acting in films]. I don’t like to cut a lot when I’m acting. The starting and stopping is always hard for me. You reset, and someone touches your hair, and then they give you a bunch of notes–it takes you out of it, and then you have to ramp back up into it. So what we would do a lot of times is we’d have two cameras, and we’d run them [until the memory cards were full]. And if I had any notes or directions, I’d talk while the cameras were running. It was terrible for the editor. But great for the performances.
What was the most difficult scene in the movie for you to act in?
CM: The first one I did: The one where I’m yelling at Don Johnson. It was his first day, and I was nervous that he was there. Luckily I had my friend Matt del Negro. He directed me when I was onscreen. I’ve known him for a long time, and I couldn’t have made the movie without him. In the script, it originally said that my character, George, cries during that scene, and everybody notices. And so I did a couple takes that were emotional. And it worked, kind of. But then I kept doing a terrible thing that I often do: Keep trying to repeat or find an emotion that isn’t there anymore. And it was Matt del Negro who told me I should get mad at [Don Johnson’s character]. “Don’t cry, yell at him. You’re sick and tired of being this guy in this house and living this life, and you’re frustrated. Tell him.” And at the time it felt like the wrong direction. But I always did what Matt wanted. And it just shows that sometimes you think something’s got to be a certain way, and then you’re in the editing room and you’re so thankful that somebody said to do the opposite. That was a hard scene. But I’m glad we had the yelling version.
*Aside from relying on Matt, what were some of the differences between directing scenes that you weren’t in, and directing scenes that you were in?
When [I] acted in “Argo,” [Ben] Affleck had the luxury of playback: He could shoot the take, then he could go to the monitors and he could watch what he did and what everyone else had done, and he could adjust it. But I think that movie shot for eighty or so days. We shot for twenty-one days. So we didn’t have that time. If I looked at a playback after every take, we would never make the day. Directing the others was fun, because I love acting and I love actors. I think I’m a better fan of actors than I am an actor. I love just playing around with them and trying new things. A prerequisite of the film was, “I won’t say no to you, and you don’t say no to me. Let’s just try everything and see what works.”
Looking back on the workload, do you regret both acting and directing?
No. I’d like to direct again, and try to put myself in a bigger part. I almost backed out of acting in the film. I didn’t want people to think I was directing it because I wanted a part. And I just wanted to be a director and concentrate on directing. I knew that would be challenging. About two weeks out, I said to the producers, maybe I shouldn’t [act in it]. But they convinced me to do it, and I’m glad I did, because I got to dip my foot in. And if there is a script that has a bigger role at the center, maybe I would have the guts to [both direct and act]. Or the stupidity.
Was Alex always at the core of the film, or did you change that around during development?
She was, and then she wasn’t, and then she was. At times I thought maybe it was her son’s story. At times I thought maybe it was my character’s story. At times I thought it was about two sisters. It really took on a lot of different shapes. But it was clear at some point that it would be her. And I was very lucky to have Mary Elizabeth Winstead. She’s incredible.
Mary Elizabeth Winstead is known for roles that are very different from this one, from “Scott Pilgrim vs. the World” to “Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter.” Were you ever apprehensive about casting her?
No. I saw her in “Smashed,” and I was blown away. And then she came in to read, and her reading was incredible. And she also just had a lot of passion for the movie. It was clear that she connected to the material and wanted to do it. When you’re directing your first movie, or maybe any movie, you need a support team around you, and you need leaders. Nobody was making any money. A lot of these people have families, a lot of them had opportunities to go make money on other jobs. So they had to want to be there. That was something that I required. Mary wanted to be there, and she was an incredible captain of the ship. She set a tone and a precedent for the film that I think the crew, and myself, and the rest of the actors really followed.
When was Don Johnson’s name thrown in for consideration?
As soon as the character was created. One of the writers, Jessica Goldberg, invented that character and his story. And as soon as the character was created, I thought of Don Johnson. I’d seen him in “Eastbound & Down” and “Django [Unchained].” I loved him in “Miami Vice” when I was a kid. I always thought he was a great actor. I begged him to do it. I don’t know if he really wanted do. [Laughs.]
How long did it take to convince him?
It took a while. I was pretty persistent. I went to his house. I think he had no intention of doing it. He took me to his son’s basketball game. And I pretended that I was interested in the game, and kept telling him about the movie. It probably took months. And then finally he jumped onboard. He showed up, and he came extremely prepared. I was nervous the first couple days working with him. Because what do you say? He’s got so much experience. And I’m this young guy, a first time director. Small movie, no trailers. “Don, your room’s upstairs. Would you like a glass of water? We have nothing to offer you.” You had to want to be there, and he did. He showed up every day, and he taught us a lot.
*How long did it take for you to stop being nervous?
It was like day twenty-one. [Laughs.] Then I was relieved that the movie was done. And I went into the editing room and [the nervousness] came back again. Because now I’m sitting with some things that I’m super proud of–but I’m also sitting with all my mistakes. And I go, “How do I fix it? I was the guy who was telling everybody I’d be the greatest director in the world, and now I’ve got a lot of problems and mistakes because it’s my first film.”
*In what ways did the editing process enhance the film?
There was a lot of stuff that ended up on the cutting room floor that I really, really liked, but just didn’t fit the movie…You’re just kind of reshaping things. The story starts to tell itself, and starts to tell you what’s needed and not needed. Editing’s amazing. It’s like writing the movie again. And the score and the sound made a gigantic difference in the movie. In a scene, background noise creates a reality when you watch the picture. Like if we played a scene with just us here, without that noise [Chris indicates people speaking in the background], it might seem flat, and not as real. [At first] it doesn’t really seem like an office, but if you put that noise in, and a couple of ringing phones, then you have the reality of an office. It’s pretty simple, but I took for granted what a difference that would make to a movie.
*Having taken lessons from this experience, what might you do differently next time you direct a feature?
I would want more time. That would be essential. I’d clear my plate of everything else but the movie. I can’t overlap with acting jobs. I would want more prep time, more shooting time, and more editing time. I like to go slow. And in twenty-one days, it’s impossible to go slow. There are a million different things I would do differently. You can read all the books about directing, and watch all the movies, and listen to all the special commentaries of a DVD. Until you’re out there on the dance floor doing it, you don’t know. That’s why I would recommend to any aspiring filmmaker or actor, you gotta grab a camera and go do it, even if it’s it on your iPhone. Edit it yourself, look at it, and play around. Because it’s only by those trials and errors that you learn.
Part Two: Mary Elizabeth Winstead (Actress), Katie Nehra (Co-Writer, Actress), Derek Luke (Actor)
How did you all get involved in this project?
Katie Nehra: I started writing the script six-and-a-half years ago, so it’s been a long road. And I knew Chris from the Labyrinth Theater Company, which was started by John Ortiz and Philip Seymour Hoffman [among others]. And then Chris and I lived on the same street at some point. Then we kind of lost touch. But I always wanted him to play George.
Mary Elizabeth Winstead: What initially got me really excited was the script, and how relatable the role was. And also Chris being as awesome as he is.
Katie: And then you met me.
Mary: That sealed the deal. [Mary and Katie laugh.]
Derek Luke: [First] it’s Chris: I believe the leader really sets the tone. What I loved about Chris Messina is that when we met and talked, I never felt like I was talking to a director. I felt like I was talking to a fellow actor…And I really love stories where the narratives have strong female leads. Because, being that I’ve been married for a while now, my story has a strong female lead.
Katie: Behind every great man is a greater woman.
Katie, you co-wrote the script–are you from Venice, Los Angeles?
Katie: No, but my writing partner, Justin [Shilton], that’s all him. He loves Venice, he lived there. I was never really a fan of Venice before I started writing this film. Maybe because it’s so far from Hollywood, where I live. But it definitely is a special place, and it’s so different from [Hollywood], and Beverly Hills. I sort of feel like it’s like the East Village of L.A.
Mary: I also live on the other side of town, and I had spent very little time there. But once I was actually forced to drive there every day for a month, I started to get why people lived over there. It’s so beautiful and laid back. It’s like a totally different lifestyle. It was really great to be there every day.
Mary, you’ve played roles very different from this one–for instance, in Scott Pilgrim vs. the World. Moving forward, how are you going to be choosing your roles?
Mary: I’m drawn to characters who get to be very human, in that they are a lot of different qualities, instead of just a few or even one. Earlier in my career, I felt like I would play a character, and the character would be [a specific] thing, and fit inside [a specific] box. And I would just try to be that. Now I’m trying to bring all my own qualities to characters, to make them as complex as possible. And if I can find roles that allow for that and don’t box me in too much, that’s the most fun for me. This was kind of perfect for that. And I’m not always going to get that, as much as I try.
*The film’s protagonist, Alex, is an environmental lawyer. A central plot point involves a case of hers (which she ultimately loses): Her firm sues to stop a local entrepreneur–Derek’s character, Frank–from building a spa on a local pond, because his construction is damaging the wildlife population. In one of the film’s best scenes, Frank argues to Alex that his spa will bring badly-needed jobs to an impoverished neighborhood–pitting Alex’s long-term concerns about the future of the environment against more immediate, human concerns. Who do you all thing gets the better side of that argument–Frank or Alex?
Mary: Well it’s funny, because I don’t think she’s expecting such a strong argument from him, so it’s a big turn for her. Like, “There’s something that I firmly believe in, and you actually made me see another side to it for a second.” And that’s kind of crazy for her, because she’s so adamant about the way that she views the world. I think that they’re both equally strong arguments. I’m probably more of Alex’s point of view. But I don’t know if I have a clear opinion on which is the better argument in this particular case, because I think they’re both important.
Derek: I think it’s a really interesting discussion: The consumption of wealth, distribution of wealth, how you use it, what’s good, what’s bad. A lot of times it’s about other people’s point of view about how they would use your money, vs. how you think you should use your money. I think Frank makes a very, very strong argument. I was even impressed when it came up. Because I probably sided with Alex a little bit, but he had a very strong defense. In his point of view, he’s doing good to the world.
Katie: There are two sides to every coin. You definitely want to hold onto a legacy–nature, something that’s always been there. But at the same time, communities are failing, people need jobs, especially in any kind of ghetto, where you want to give people opportunities to grow and make [the community] stronger. But where’s the balance? I don’t know what the answer is. I think we have these two characters that are showing two sides. Most people would side with one or the other. But I think it’s a gray area.
Mary: The whole issue is also a bigger metaphor her life and her inability to change and move forward. And so I think for her, [losing her court case] is actually kind of a good thing in disguise, because it forces her to realize that she can’t just keep things the way they are all the time, and she has to grow.
Katie: Alex has to modernize herself.
Mary: It kind of thrusts her into thinking about moving on from her current life.
Katie: I love spas and ponds. I just want to go on the record.
Read the roundtable at IndieNYC.com
David@IndieNYC.com
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